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Scoop
Member
I am here in Aus and I can tell you that this has not gone down well at all. And rightly so.
The Govenment are looking at revoking their residency and kicking them out, personally I'd be looking more at a custodial sentence if possible because honest to fuck, how is that not hate speech?
That said, watch all the 'woke/freedom of speech/do gooders .. whatever' chuck their oar in. Could you imagine if a white, English male had said such things?
These 'people' are in a position of extreme trust and to state that you have willingly, without prompting "despatched innocent people to hell" because they feel differently to you, beggars belief.
I hope they throw the book at them ... and the table ... and anything else they can find.
It will be interesting to see what the Aus Govenment do with this. Not much would be my guess as they're so paranoid about appearing racist or whatever now that the Country is going to shit.
It's still sunny tho, >30 degs this weekend
Mr Angry
Member
Jaw jaw doesn’t work when you’re dealing with a deranged egomaniac dictator. (Just to clarify, I’m talking about Putin, not Trump).
R
Rock The Boat
Member
What a bombshell from Trump today, practically blaming Zelensky for starting the war and demanding a Presidential election in Ukraine.
He's going to get a lot of flak thrown at him over this and many will say deservedly so. I'm going to be a bit more cautious over criticising Trump. I think we are seeing a master negotiator at play who knows how to apply pressure tactics. Will he sell Ukraine down the river? I don't think so. I think he is more interested in making a deal for Ukranian resources and needs to keep the Ukranians onside. Zeĺemsky might get sacrificed but that may be the price of peace. I'm not coming out in full support of Trump because he's clearly putting America interests first but that is what he said he was going to do when he got elected.
For the UK I don't see us getting anything out of this other than holding the moral high ground in supporting Ukraine against a Russian invasion. Seems like a repeat of WWII outcomes. I hope we don't put boots on the ground. As happened in Iraq and Afhghanistan nobody loves you and our working class boys don't deserve to die for political virtue signalling
On a side note, something I find interesting that no one has commented on. I notice these peace talks that usually take place in London or Paris or Geneva or similar, are taking place in Riyadh. This isn't coincidental. Its part of a strategy to pull the Middle Eastern states into the mainstream and strengthen the Abraham Accords. I notice the foreign minister of UAE getting a lot of airtime. He's a young guy, Oxbridge educated, perfect English, Western outlook, going to be a big influencer in the region. I think there some promising signs coming out of the Middle East
He's going to get a lot of flak thrown at him over this and many will say deservedly so. I'm going to be a bit more cautious over criticising Trump. I think we are seeing a master negotiator at play who knows how to apply pressure tactics. Will he sell Ukraine down the river? I don't think so. I think he is more interested in making a deal for Ukranian resources and needs to keep the Ukranians onside. Zeĺemsky might get sacrificed but that may be the price of peace. I'm not coming out in full support of Trump because he's clearly putting America interests first but that is what he said he was going to do when he got elected.
For the UK I don't see us getting anything out of this other than holding the moral high ground in supporting Ukraine against a Russian invasion. Seems like a repeat of WWII outcomes. I hope we don't put boots on the ground. As happened in Iraq and Afhghanistan nobody loves you and our working class boys don't deserve to die for political virtue signalling
On a side note, something I find interesting that no one has commented on. I notice these peace talks that usually take place in London or Paris or Geneva or similar, are taking place in Riyadh. This isn't coincidental. Its part of a strategy to pull the Middle Eastern states into the mainstream and strengthen the Abraham Accords. I notice the foreign minister of UAE getting a lot of airtime. He's a young guy, Oxbridge educated, perfect English, Western outlook, going to be a big influencer in the region. I think there some promising signs coming out of the Middle East
Fenway Frank
Well-Known Member
Trump says he could have done a deal three years ago and Ukraine wouldn't have had to give up much territory, what would happen if someone suggested he gave up some territory to Canada or Mexico?
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Sonyc
Well-Known Member
A lot there to absorb. I'm unsure if this is master negotiating or recklessness. Certainly people will be talking about appeasement. Time will tell. What the tactic (strategy?) does do is move a dial on opinion (which we repeatedly see). He is certainly interested in minerals.
I think I also wouldn't wish to see 'boots on the ground' but if this were to happen surely it's a peace keeping role only? Rory Stewart has explained how our armed forces have been so run down, especially under Osborne and Cameron and then the last decade. Likewise the UK intelligence outlets (and personnel) the world over have gradually been withdrawn and reduced over the decade. UK 'preparedness' is not in a good way it seems.
Trump is right when he suggests that Europe needs to think more about it's own security rather than relying on the US.
To rebuild the UK armed forces will take at least a decade....possibly 20. And it's something that must be done (with taxes to pay for it).
We will see what happens next.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Trump will end this.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
I don't pretend to understand the region, but a lot of territories have been disputed for many years, as I said, there are people in those territories that consider themselves Russian, so the waters are pretty muddy.
Maybe Zelensky never wanted a deal, he has increased his personal fortune a great deal through all this, and also denied Ukraine an election despite being increasingly unpopular.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Mr Angry
Member
I think the ones that considered themselves as Russian changed their minds once they started to be killed by Russians.
Mr Angry
Member
He thinks Zelenskyy went into a war? He thinks he chose to be invaded? What a fucking moron.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Oh agree that point is sketchy, I'm fine with the rest.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
I think, at the very least, zelensky deciding to go to war with a global superpower is extremely naive. And whilst it is obvious that Putin is the bad guy, the polarised opinion that zelensky is the good guy in every way, is a bit misguided.
How I Wrote Elastic Man
Member
Zelensky decided to go to war? Russia invaded.
What options did he have? Fight or take it up the arse from Putin
morty
Moderator
Staff member
I dunno maybe ask the hundreds of thousands of grieving wives and mothers?
Ukraine has gained nothing from this but body bags.
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Sonyc
Well-Known Member
I think a reasonable question to ask though is why doesn't Trump say anything about Putin. It's all about Zelenskyy
How I Wrote Elastic Man
Member
Nor has Russia.
But all these deaths are on Putin.
Perhaps one way of closing this out is asking the people of the areas on the borders whether they want to be part of Russia or Ukraine
Once the results are in, give everyone who voted on the losing side a couple of years to peacefully relocate if they desire
Simplistic and not ideal, but better than thousands dying
morty
Moderator
Staff member
I think a lot of this though is gamesmanship, mixed in with some lazy rhetoric from the media.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
I would imagine that any peace talks would somehow involve this. The most important thing is just stopping the senseless waste of human lives. Nobody wants this war, and Trump will offer them a way out. It seems that for the last three years people have been more interested in continuing the war than stopping it. People should maybe asking themselves why?
Ricardo
Active Member
We need to put our own house in order and stop continually cutting the defence budget because we would rather spend it on nice things for ourselves. Freedom and independence come at a price and its a lesson that we continually have to relearn. Europe cannot rely on the USA to defend us anymore and those countries eg Austria, Ireland etc who have been getting a free ride for decades will have to start to pull their weight. Its time for Starmer and Macron to step up to the plate.