Views on racsim

[Wiz]

I came to football comparatively late, in relation to my age, and only started watching in the early 90's when openly racist behaviour was on the wane. I think that football, in general has gone to great lengths to stamp out racist behaviour, but at the end of the day football fans are a cross section of society, a society that still has racist people in it. The only real difference is that has no longer become acceptable to express your views publically, but I have absolutely no doubt that people feel the same as they always did.

Racism has been intermingled with xenephobia now in light of open European borders and migrant refugees, stirred up by paranoia fuelled by terrorism.

I don't believe football is any more or less racist than society as a whole, what bothers me more is enforced diversity when it is touted that we must have more black managers. Why should we? If they are good enough then it doesn't matter what colour they are, and the premise they should be given a chance just because of their colour is a bit odd, in my opinion.

Absolutely spot on morty.

 

[KeiranShikari]

It's 2016, there's always going to be sexism and racism against straight white males.

The fact that Chris Hughton is probably the best black manager in the country paint's it's own picture really. 

 

[Canaryboy]

what bothers me more is enforced diversity when it is touted that we must have more black managers. Why should we? If they are good enough then it doesn't matter what colour they are, and the premise they should be given a chance just because of their colour is a bit odd, in my opinion.

That debate annoys me a little bit too, it would require a huge academic study to actually determine whether black managers are disadvantaged rather than just counting how many there are out of 92 at any given time. For example, what percentage of black players actually take their coaching badges, what percentage of job applications are from black managers, etc.

And the most relevant statistic is surely what proportion of black players with serious managerial aspirations are handed their first job in management, rather than how many stay in the job, because it doesn't matter what colour your skin is... most managers fail and don't get past their first job. 

I suspect that there is actually a little bit of truth in the claim that black managers don't get the same number of first opportunities that white ones do, but ultimately it comes down to how many are good enough to stay on the conveyor belt, once you get a chance if you are good enough you'll stay in the profession. 

Sol Campbell didn't do black managers many favours when we last had this debate, crying foul over racism because Gary Neville got a cushy job with England instead of him. I wonder whether Campbell would be prepared to go and manage for a year or two at Accrington Stanley for £800 a week for experience and to prove himself, or whether he would he sneer his nose up at £40k to £50k a year because he can make man times that amount just moving his money from investment A to investment B and back again. 

 

[Canaryboy]

The fact that Chris Hughton is probably the best black manager in the country paint's it's own picture really. 

But that actually puts him in the top 10 current best British born managers in the country when ranked by league position of current club. There are only 7 in the Premier League. 

If anything the ethnic topic which really intrigues me is why there are so few Asians that play professional football. Yes you can say that they are traditionally more into cricket, but I can't recall many boxers coming out of India or Pakistan either, yet can name three active British-Pakistani professional boxers. 

 

[TILLY]

No intention of derailing the thread whatsover Canaryboy and quite honestly i am not in the slightest bit interested in who is or not banned on this site but my beef is with the hypocracy of some on here. You mention that banned posters have been made welcome on here which is fine but to allow someone who on a public forum made an overtly racist remark seems to me at least somewhat overly tolerant.

If i may just address Wiz..........you really do take the biscuit with what i copied and pasted from " the other site " as you called it and then on here have the nerve to say this.........

I believe racism, and homophobia btw, still festers in football and not just in England.

Stopping it is another matter though, so much ignorance still exist in the world I'm afraid.

 

[Number 9]

Initiatives like Rooney's law in the states don't guarantee jobs, just interviews.

And reading Tilly's post reminded me about the severe issues Her Majesty's Constabulary has had regarding institutional racism among other things.

Human nature is not to like change, the status quo is almost always the preferred option for many people, it takes mind set being shifted by education over time for change in perception & attitude.

UK is moving in the right direction regarding attitudes towards racism, still a long way to go.

 

[Canaryboy]

"but to allow someone who on a public forum made an overtly racist remark seems to me at least somewhat overly tolerant"

I've always said from day one that people will be judged by what they do or say on this site, not elsewhere, and that was always the only sensible position to take. 

First time I've heard that this place is "overly tolerant", people used to say this place was like North Korea so I guess we've flipped 180 degrees, 

 

[Wiz]

One reason you get racism in football is basically 'tribal' imo, whereas in normal public life fans will happily integrate with all cultures, stick a football match in the mix and all reason evaporates with some folk.

I've witnessed extreme racism in the Barclay years ago over Albert Johanson of Leeds, Britain's first black player, sickening that was and the local bobbies just smiled at it!............no stewards back then btw.

Try that today and quite rightly your feet won't touch the ground on your way out!

Add a resentment (relative murdered on the building of the Burma railway in WW2!) and people will not always be rational and will act out of character which they'll always regret.

At best, if groups like 'Britain First' and the 'EDL' school of thinking can be kept away from our game and off the terraces with their odious logic I would deem that a huge success for the sport.  

That has to be our goal and must start with education in our schools and football media forums like Norwich Talk.

 

[Fenway Frank]

A number of years ago someone sitting a few rows behind me racially abused Dele Adebola. About ten minutes later when we got to half time I went to the nearest steward, who had been sitting closer than me and asked him what he was going to do about it. He said he didn't hear anything, I've never believed him and think he didn't want to get involved. At the end of the match a few of us checked the seat number of the perpetrator and his mates and I took it to the head steward who said the club would write to them threatening to take away their season tickets. They were very quiet for the next few weeks !