Webber announced.

[Canaryboy]

I do find it incredible that responsibility for our most important summer transfer window for years (2016) was given to somebody with no prior experience in such a role, no scouting experience, and only had experience of coaching kids. It almost makes you feel a bit sorry for Alex Neil and the frustration he must have felt. 

 

[morty]

I agree, but I also agree that a club our size can't afford what I agree have generally been 3 or 4 poor transfer windows. And i'd agree with Webber that that's probably been our biggest downfall over the last 2 years.

I think Webber probably feels with the budget we've had we've not made the most of it. Certainly our big-money signings haven't really worked and the likelihood of being able to recoup more than half the money is slim. Particularly, the likes of RvW, Naismith and Klose are record-breaking transfer fee's for the club but the chances of us getting even 50% of that back is slim. That's not to say I don't understand those signings because I do and there's a logic behind why we made them.

But it's clear Webber has a very different logic behind him - and probably more suited to a club our size. If we're going to spend 7-8 million I don't think it's going to be on anyone the wrong side of 28 years old - because the chances of us being able to 1) make a profit if a success or 2) recoup as much as possible if it doesn't work out, will be much higher if they're younger.

Can't disagree with any of that, I wasn't trying to make any excuses for our recruitment. It was more of a "shout out" to people who blame Ricky for all our ills, without actually knowing anything about him, or his role.

 

[morty]

It seems Mark Rivers was a pretty big Ricky Martin fan......

 

[Din]

Can't see it as anything other than a positive move. Shows that the board are not only open to make radical changes but that Webber is going all out to make sure that this summer's recruitment is faultless, which it needs to be. Martin perhaps has drawn the short straw because the board put him into a role that he should never have been in in the first place, however we can't really afford to be sympathetic, and I'm glad that we're not being.

 

[Canaryboy]

Can't disagree with any of that, I wasn't trying to make any excuses for our recruitment. It was more of a "shout out" to people who blame Ricky for all our ills, without actually knowing anything about him, or his role.

I'm sure he was an excellent Academy Manager, in fact we've seen the results of that. Not really sure what 'Technical Director' entails, but I think the bit which doesn't make sense to me was when he was given the responsibility to lead player recruitment. It was our most important transfer window in a very long time, and I just don't understand how anybody at the club could have considered him qualified for that. 

Somebody will give him a job leading an Academy somewhere when he produces a list of the players that have come through in recent years, the Murphy twins, Toffolo, McGeehan, some real talent came through under his stewardship. 

 

[Canaryboy]

It seems Mark Rivers was a pretty big Ricky Martin fan......

Blimey look at the state of Mark Rivers, he looks 15 years older than he is,, obviously hasn't thought about getting on the treadmill since he retired at 30.

I had a mate who played for Dereham Town though and he got to play 90 minutes against the Norwich first team in a friendly, said that nobody get anywhere near him and that he was the one player who made them all realise why they'd ended up in non-league. 

 

[morty]

I'm sure he was an excellent Academy Manager, in fact we've seen the results of that. Not really sure what 'Technical Director' entails, but I think the bit which doesn't make sense to me was when he was given the responsibility to lead player recruitment. It was our most important transfer window in a very long time, and I just don't understand how anybody at the club could have considered him qualified for that. 

Somebody will give him a job leading an Academy somewhere when he produces a list of the players that have come through in recent years, the Murphy twins, Toffolo, McGeehan, some real talent came through under his stewardship. 

Yeah I do admit his exact role seemed vague, but he must have shown something that got him the job, whatever it was lol.

I think I remember someone saying that they didn't like when our yoof won the FA cup, Ricky Martin tried to claim majority responsibility for it all, and hogged the limelight a bit.

I guess this tells us just how vague his actual role was, and maybe that was the problem, it seemed to range from youth development, to overseeing sports science, to scouting. Which, is in essence, two or three specialised roles. Trying to do it a bit on the cheap maybe?

 

[morty]

http://www.canaries.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/norwich-city-ricky-martin-3672835.aspx

http://www.canaries.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/norwich-city-darnborough-spearing-3672844.aspx

 

[hogesar]

Well, certainly isn't messing around. But it does mean he's going to have his work cut out :

1) Get a head coach

2) Build a new scouting setup

3) Sell / Release as many unwanted players as possible to reduce wage bill and generate some funds

4) Target and sign players for the following season.

When Webber said he'd need the patience of norwich fans I think he was pretty serious! Most clubs will only have 1 or 2 things on that list to contend with as opposed to all 4!

 

[hogesar]

Thats ignoring probably having to release coaching staff and target replacements their too (probably at the head coach' wishes)

 

[Canaryboy]

I don't see how number 2 is that big of an issue really, Darnborough had only been here for 2 years and Spearing for 1 year. 

Darnborough came in as head of player recruitment in 2015 and a year later we were declaring that Ricky Martin was head of player recruitment. 

Pretty much every manager we appoint has brought a new Chief Scout with them. Didn't Ewan Chester leave under Lambert and then return with Hughton? 

A non-compete would be impossible to enforce for such a position, so if you steal a scout from some other club you are bringing their last couple of years of scouting reports and transfer targets with them. Stuart Webber will have plenty of players that were on Huddersfield's A list that they missed out on, and their B list. Not just from last summer but people he'd be targeting this summer. 

Could effectively just import a scouting team from a divisional rival, that's what we tried to do with Darnborough from Burnley. 

I've got more confidence in Webber himself than I have with Ricky Martin when it comes to knowing what is out there. Webber was Director of Recruitment at Liverpool and the Head of Scouting at QPR, he is far more qualified than Ricky Martin. 

We need a new Chief Scout, but we don't need a Head of Player recruitment.... that is Webber, he's the man. 

Huddersfield themselves lost their Head of Recruitment a couple of years ago, he went to Southampton, but Huddersfield still managed to bring in players like Aaron Mooy and Kasey Palmer the following summer. 

Just can't buy into the idea that Martin and Darnborough leaving is going to negatively effect us at all. Each had a year heading up our player recruitment, neither year can be deemed particularly successful on that front. Huddersfield meanwhile have just been a revelation this season after one excellent summer of business.... I've got a lot of faith in Webber and trust him on this one. 

Probably just tested Martin a bit, "what do you think of this player that literally anybody in your position at this level of football should know a hell of a lot about after this season...".... rubbish answers, not doing your job mate... cheerio. 

 

[Canaryboy]

You're right though, he's got a hell of a lot to do, suspect he is foregoing his summer holiday this year! 

 

[GJP]

I understand Mr Webber has made some interesting comments tonight. Something about Alex Neil and massive mistakes, something about wanting identity and something about several players not good enough or hungry enough or both.

 

[Fenway Frank]

This was mentioned on canary call. Apparently he said only 15 of the current squad will be here next season

 

[Canaryboy]

This was mentioned on canary call. Apparently he said only 15 of the current squad will be here next season

Its a bit odd to be saying that before we have a head coach, unless the head coach has zero input into who stays and who goes. That or Irvine is the new head coach and his interim appointment was actually a job trial. 

Wouldn't be angry if we did appoint Irvine, he's always had a reputation as a good coach, as long as we start getting smart and giving managers a 1 year rolling contract. Literally the only point in giving a manager a 3 or 4 year contract is to entitle us to compensation if another club takes them. 

But how many managers have we actually ever got compensation for, and how many have we had to pay off significant amounts to sack? We'd have lost less money if we'd employed all of our managers on rolling contracts and took it on the chin if they want to leave. 

We got money from Everton for Walker. Did we even get any money for Lambert from Villa in the end? Sounded like we agreed some token figure in return for him dropping the lawsuit he started against us. Probably burnt whatever we got on lawyers fees. 

 

[Canaryboy]

Instead of giving managers huge amounts of money when they fail, give them huge amounts of money in bonuses when they succeed. Feels a bit backwards to be giving a manager a seven figure sum for not meeting their objectives, how about giving them a seven figure bonus when they do? 

A bit of quid pro quo that way. 

 

[Din]

I'd be disappointed if we gave Irvine the full-time job to be honest, even though he has done well in the time he's had. Although it was a couple of weeks ago Webber does say in that interview on the previous page that Irvine won't be head coach.

His comments that only 12-15 members of the current squad will be here next season is a really interesting one. That is a massive overhaul. Obviously a few players who are likely on decent to high wages are out of contract this summer anyway (Bassong, Bennett, Mulumbu, Turner), but Webber is also clearly confident that he will be able to move those players on who are on big money yet not out of contract (Ruddy, Naismith, Jarvis, Klose, Lafferty). I also find it interesting how Wildschut hasn't been involved at all in recent games. Maybe we're planning for life without him even though he was only signed in January?

If I had to guess which 15 players will still be here next season I'd go with: McGovern, Pinto, Martin, Howson, Tettey, Dorrans, Thompson, Jacob, Josh, Hoolahan, Pritchard, Maddison, Oliveira and Jerome. Maybe Wildschut and/or Toffolo.

Of the rest I think we'll probably loan out a few of the youngsters (Godfrey, Matthews, Morris), and then presumably sell everyone else. Have to say whilst it's a radical change, I am excited about it, and to be honest if that list is correct (which there's every chance it won't be  ) then the only player I'd be genuinely disappointed to lose is Ruddy, and that's for sentimental reasons rather than actually being gutted about losing a top player. To be fair if we went into next season with him as our first choice goalkeeper I wouldn't be upset, I think he's probably still good enough, however the fact that he's probably one of the highest earners at the club means that he will almost certainly leave.

 

[morty]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city/norwich-city-sporting-director-stuart-webber-expects-a-summer-of-major-changes-at-carrow-road-1-4986200

 

[Canaryboy]

"and also highlighted the average age of the squad having to be reduced"

Yep, been saying this since forever. 

 

[Canaryboy]

If I had to guess which 15 players will still be here next season I'd go with: McGovern, Pinto, Martin, Howson, Tettey, Dorrans, Thompson, Jacob, Josh, Hoolahan, Pritchard, Maddison, Oliveira and Jerome. Maybe Wildschut and/or Toffolo.

That would be assuming that we don't need to sell anybody to help finance this revolution. The only players that would be likely to attract a sizeable fee are in your list of players.

I hope the main work that needs to be done in terms of balancing the books is reducing the wage bill, and that we are more than half way there by releasing all of the out of contract players. Ruddy, Bassong, Mulumbu, and Turner are all surely on mega money. Lafferty and Bennett probably on less, but still each on top Championship money you'd expect. 

When he said "12 to 15 from today's programme", what did he mean? Did he means the internal page with the whole squad on it, or the squad list on the back cover? Does the list on the back cover have 28 players on it? 

The list on the back cover doesn't actually have Toffolo, Morris, and Rudd on it right?