Will Adams' Wes obsession cost us promotion?

[Beauseant]

I'm increasingly alarmed by the fact that Neil seems to have decided that Wes has to be accommodated in any system we play. After the Wolves debacle we reverted to a 4-2-3-1 with Wes central and it worked. However, since we started to play two up top we have reverted to a four. We all know that Wes can't play centrally in such a system so he is now being played wide left, but then wanders wherever he wants, unbalancing the team. Consequently we have to play BOTH BJ and Tettey deep to avoid being done on the break. Frankly, playing two holding MFs against a side as unambitious as Charlton is ridiculous, but its a necessity when you have Wes in that formation.

In addition, Neil is constantly talking about the depth of our squad so how about using it? We spent nearly £5M on a lad considered to be the next big Belgian midfielder yet he gets shipped off to play with the kids at Southampton, and O'Neill sits on his backside while Tettey and Johnson are being run into the ground. I don't understand.

 

[Salopian]

I agree with Beauseant. Wes is such a creative player that if fit has to play, it seems.  I am more concerned about what would happen if he were injured (- pretty rare event) or suspended. Would a Wes-less team be able to mount attacks? They ought to be able, but they are not really practising it. We have other creative players, such as Howson, who will not get much opportunity.

 

[morty]

I'm hoping Howson will start to feature now he is fit.

As for Wes, I just don't know. I thought he had a good game last night, so it would be difficult to leave him out. But I take your point, is he this seasons Snodgrass?

 

[Beauseant]

I like Wes, but I just don't see him as the solution for every problem. I think you have to establish your most effective system and then choose the players who can play it

 

[Wiz]

I would like to see how we go without Wes as he does give the ball away a lot of the time imo.

Starting on Saturday hopefully.

 

[mustard gas]

I didn't expect Wes to play last night. Thought it was time to rest him and either Tetty or Johnson, and maybe Grabban as well, though only Lafferty is really available to replace him. Unless Loza is handed a start.

 

[morty]

I like Wes, but I just don't see him as the solution for every problem. I think you have to establish your most effective system and then choose the players who can play it

Lets try and break this down into something tangible. Last night, did he fulfill his role of providing something for the strikers to get a hold of? My answer would be yes, he did fulfill that remit, he did create chances. 

But I loved the difference Howson made when he came on, he provided something different, but was it better?

 

[Beauseant]

I agree, but at what cost? We ended up with Wes, Grabban, Jerome and Redmond isolated from BJ and Tettey, with the whole Charlton midfield in between them, so there was never any fluidity in our build up.

Wes will always create chances, but he will also always slow our build up.

 

[morty]

I agree, but at what cost? We ended up with Wes, Grabban, Jerome and Redmond isolated from BJ and Tettey, with the whole Charlton midfield in between them, so there was never any fluidity in our build up.

Wes will always create chances, but he will also always slow our build up.

We did play pretty high up the pitch in the second half though. I struggle to explain that dominant ten minutes where we utterly battered them, and still came away with nothing.

I think its showing, by our current greater success away from home, that we need teams to come on to us, but more importantly we need to come up with a system that can break teams down that park the bus. And if you were to run all the stats and theory in your head, Wes should be the answer lol.

 

[ZLF]

For me its less a wes issue but a using our best players for the best of the team and the real conflict/challenge is whether we can accomodate 2 strikers (which seems to be Adams preference) and Wes.    I dont think that is our best option.

My starting point is that the key to a successful season will increasingly be the ability to break down packed defences - more teams will come here and take a bournemouth / bham / chartlon approach - defend deep and hope for a point or a break away goal as our defenders (again?) fall asleep.

Wes and Redmond are head and shoulders our most influential creaters.  But only if wes plays centrally.   Build the team / plan a around that.    With those two I cant envisage a successful formation / approach with wes central and redmond wide with two strikers - any option (4132 too lightweight in cm, 4312, redmond too deep, 4222 - currently used and not working effectively).   

As such I return to the 4231 - either drop grabban to the left flank role (or drop him altogether and put lafferty wide) and get the three to move around the excellent jerome.   With the excellent tettey and the potential of Howson this give us a secure pacy and fluid attack that will dominate midfield while creating problems.   When we played 4231 the tempo was there and wes was certainly not slowing the play down,  most of that tends to come from slow build up from the back 6. With Howson bursting forward and movement from Jerome, Redmond and Grabban wide he should have plenty of options.   4231 has seen our best football this season,  and redmond,  wes and lafferty were key to that.   We have not seen it with Jerome up top - which I think would take it to another level.

4411 is also a possibility but my preference is for something that is proven to work.

We have players to cover positions for fitness concerns (BJ in if wes out,  move Howson forward for example) to ensure plan a can continue.

Plan B (or Neyuls plan A if he really wants two up top) has to be drop wes to the bench and go to a basic 442,  again with Tettey, Howson and redmond in three of the midfield slots.  

Plan c for chasing the game would involve doing 3 at the back (we have enough cbs afterall and move to 3232.     Now if Neyul was to be truly bold (and recognising that in this league three good centre backs and a good sheild in cm will nullify most attacks) this could become the first choice line up...

 

 

[ZLF]

What happened to my font there???

ps wes did well last night (my motm was redmond, wes a close second) and but for some poor finishing (just 4 of 15 shots on target) would have again won.    Poor finishing is a recurrent issue despite all our goals 

 

[Lake District Canary]

For my money, if you play Wes you have to play him as a forward player.  Playing 442 with him in midfield simply is not productive enough.   442 with him as one of the strikers - creating space and causing mayhem as far forward as possible - does work - it worked well at times, even under Hughton.   Or simply as a 4 4 1 1, giving him a free role with four good midfielders behind him.    Plenty of chances would still be created and balance in midfield would be better.

 

[Beauseant]

I agree totally with ZLF. 4-2-3-1 worked really well against Watford and Blackburn so why abandon it. By the way, LDC, its pretty much what you're describing too, just expressed in different numbers!

 

[GazzaTCC]

My view on this has always been, either play Wes centrally, behind a front one or two, or not at all.

Last night he had a half decent game, by his standards in a 4-4-2 formation, but this was often at the expense of upsetting the balance of the team.

Often, he drifted inside, meaning there was little width out left unless Olsson over lapped. With Charlton having a five man midfield this just played into their hands.

When Wes was wide, he was often too far advanced, up against the right back, for Johnson or Tettey to find him.

Wes is a great player, when used properly. If not, he either becomes too isolated, or, gives the ball away far too often and the team looks unbalanced.

I will judge Adams on his use of Wes, and, just as importantly, his use of other options and the whole squad. At the moment, the jury is still out.

 

[Watling the Gnome]

I would be happy to revert to 4-2-3-1 and use Grabban on the left with Jerome up front, or, when we need more of a physical threat, Lafferty.

I don't think Wes functions at his best in a midfield four.  He needs to be in the middle of the pitch, and high enough up to prevent his inevitable give-aways from causing too much pain.

 

[Canaryboy]

I'd like to see us revert back to the 4-2-3-1 now, with us going to two up front if chasing the game in the second half. Either one of Grabban or Jerome would probably be effective coming off the bench for half an hour, it's what Jerome has been doing for the past three seasons at Stoke! 

Seeing as Grabban and Jerome are having more of an impact in the second half anyway, perhaps that extra body in the middle would help prevent us falling behind in the first half.

We still have the problem of working out who to play on that left side though. Sometimes it can be Josh Murphy, but I'm not keen on Lafferty playing wide, and not all that keen on Wes playing out wide either (because he drifts infield anyway!).

I'm at the stage where I'm even considering whether moving Redmond to the left and bringing Elliott Bennett back into the fold on the right would be a good idea, or bringing Garrido in at left back - where he impressed earlier in the season - and pushing Olsson up to the left side of either a 4-4-2 or a 4-2-3-1. 

My preference would still be to sign a left winger, the loan window is open! 

 

[SussexYellow]

This is the classic Wes dilemma.

The plus is he on his day is brilliant, one of our best players, why would you not play him? The minus is that he unbalances the team. As a left sided midfielder it does not work. He follows his instinctive tendency to move into the center. A potential knock on effect of this is that Olsson has to stay deeper and our attacks become very right sided.

A balanced team can be more than the sum of its parts, or put another way more than the sum of a team of the best players when they can not all play in their best positions.

In my view Neil Adams would be better to decide what system he wants to play, and then select the best team to play that formation even if it leaves out some of the favoured ones.

I agree with Gazza you either play Wes in the middle 4231 or the diamond or not at all. If we are going with 442 then we need a left sided midfielder. VOO has been playing that role in other games so a possibility. But not sure its his favoured position either! Howson? Again not his favoured position. So how about Lafferty? He plays wide in the 4231 so why not also 442?

 

[Din]

I can see why Adams wants to try and accommodate Wes however he can, because on his day he's the best player in our team and probably the best player in the Championship. However I do agree that it is inconveniencing us a little. Adams knows that Hoolahan isn't a winger, which is why we played with no left winger yesterday and played him centrally, but because of that we had no width on the left hand side, meaning that there were much fewer balls going into the box than perhaps there would've been had we played with 2 natural wingers. I think it's mainly because both Grabban and Jerome are both in good goalscoring form, he wants to try and play 2 up top, but also wants to include Wes, I think if/when one of them goes through a bit of a drought, we'll see a return to 4-2-3-1.

I thought Hoolahan was very good though against Charlton, and certainly don't think he should be dropped at this moment in time.

 

[Monty13]

It's funny you could say the same about the Johnson/Tettey partnership in a 442 which IMO is not as an effective midfield central pairing when playing two up top.

Wes gets his overly fair share of stick imo, and I'm not really sure it's justified after his latest performance. If the manager wants to play him there and he still looks effective, which he did, then there are other areas that could be looked at to improve.

Personally a Johnson/Tettey 442 without Wes makes me shudder.

 

[Ankles]

Hoolahan played a lot of good stuff tuesday but Grabban especially was wasteful so we didn't see end product of the endeavours, 2 gilt edge chaces should have been scored direct from Wes good play, if that had happened he'd be mentioned as playing a key part in another victory

Our strikers meant they didn't convert, not his fault

I will say he doesn't actually chip in too many goals himself, and with Redman and Tettey not being the biggest goal getters in the midfield (Johnson usually good for 5-6 a season) the bigger question is can we afford to not contribute enough as a team from midfield.  Howson does get goals, Snodgrass & Pilks (when he was fit) chipped in