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gerryinromania
Well-Known Member
Thanks Morty and Canaryboy, That sounds better. All is not lost,, we support our club and have travelled the bad days. in days of yore. Plenty of yore for me, being an ancient old fella
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Not all lost at all, but I have this nagging fear of sliding into Championship obscurity, like Ips**ch. We are fighting against it because of lack of external investment, so we have to be either very lucky, or very, very streetwise.
And I think we all know the Murphys are our insurance policy, if we don't go up this season they'll be off quicker than you can say "fire sale"
OldRobert
Well-Known Member
Let's hope Murphy hasn't had his head turned by the interest in him. Atm he's best off staying with us for at least a season. After that who the hell knows. As Morty says the brothers are our insurance policy, and it's too early to cash in that policy.
FFS nobody on here wants us to turn into another 1p5wich.
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
There are two sides that argument though, when Evans first arrived at Ipswich they threw a load of money at the team for 4 or 5 years chasing a promotion which didn't quite materialise, but built a huge debt in the process which they then struggled to service and now resort to signing whoever is free. The fact that their expenditure was more than their income for a sustained period is arguably the reason why they are where they are?
The argument could well be that we are better served in the long run living within our means. Similar at Derby County actually, they've been big spenders for a while chasing a promotion that never came and they've just sold their three most valuable assets this summer.... Hughes, Christie and Ince.
So the counter argument could be that if we run at a loss again this season and carry over our debt from last season, we'd be much closer to finding ourselves in a similar position to Ipswich (where a big slice of revenue goes straight out in interest payments) than we would if we failed to go up but were debt free with a playing budget we could afford to maintain.
I also wonder whether Webber wants to raise money to pay off a few players that we've got no real hope of shifting... Jarvis and McGovern in particular, to give us a completely clean slate.
Both of them are at serious risk of significantly draining our finances post parachute payments, and I still think he wants Naismith out and may have to subsidise that departure.
Would be a bit depressing to sell a player to pay off several more, but we do need to avoid a situation whereas we have unhappy senior players hanging around the place after they've already been told they aren't wanted, and I think the 'bomb squad' of well paid senior players who were surplus at Villa made Lambert's job a lot more difficult there.
Or of course we could have a long list of quality players that we want to add to the squad on permanent deals, and they may start arriving soon. Perhaps Webber is confident we can land a cheaper and younger player of comparable quality to Howson, I wouldn't bet on it but you never know.
Isn't increasing the national debt to way beyond our means in the hope that significant revenue growth will follow what Corbyn wants to do with the country? And the argument against that typically being that if it fails we are completely f*cked?
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morty
Moderator
Staff member
I think I feel a huge frustration at the decisions that got us to where we are today, it all could have been so different. McNally brought us huge success, firstly in bringing Lambert to the club, and financially stabilising us. But I look at the money we have let slip through our hands, and its quite depressing. Some of the signings, because lets not pretend they have all been bad, and some of the contracting, you only have to look at the players we released and realise how much of a millstone they were (not Ruddy though, but perhaps in wages) and wonder how much better last season could have been, had we had different players in their places.
I don't think the club thought we would get relegated, and they certainly didn't have a plan for it. Its never been about how much money you have, but how you use it. And I feel we have been hugely wasteful.
I don't think the club thought we would get relegated, and they certainly didn't have a plan for it. Its never been about how much money you have, but how you use it. And I feel we have been hugely wasteful.
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GJP
Well-Known Member
He isn't for sale until we are offered enough money.
OldRobert
Well-Known Member
Big difference between us and Derby surely, is we were in the PL with the TV payments, and when we fell out of the PL we had parachute payments to supposedly soften the blow. Subsequent managers then blew the transfer budget, on the whole on arguably poor players. Some OK as Morty says, but by no means all.
Someone no doubt has a list of Hughton and Neil buys, might be a good time to revisit their dealings, and perhaps understand better why we are in the mire.
Someone no doubt has a list of Hughton and Neil buys, might be a good time to revisit their dealings, and perhaps understand better why we are in the mire.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
I don't have a list, per say, but its maybe not as bad as you may think. Yeah we had Ricky, but we also turned profit on the likes of Snodgrass, Fer, Bradley and Grabban. And you can't really criticise a manager for blowing his whole budget, because thats what its there for. To be fair to the club, we have always spent every penny we have on the pitch, maybe just not always wisely. Plus it isn't always easy for a Norwich City manager, everyone knows we don't have much money, players included, so we maybe have to pay players more to literally come here, or promise better deals.
I genuinely think the club didn't think we would get relegated the time before last, and heavily committed to expensive players, which you can't entirely blame them for. Also contracting over the last 3 or 4 years hasn't been too smart, looking at some of the millstones we got shot of. We essentially had 4 or 5 players in the squad, on good money last season, that contributed zero. And we simply don't have the money to take up that slack.
Also I think the Premiership is an absolute poison chalice for clubs our size, you never really turn more actual profit, because you spend more and more on players and wages just to try and keep up, and we are always behind everyone else, due to lack of external investment, if we ever go up again, thats something that needs urgently addressed.
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GJP
Well-Known Member
Looks like we have missed out on Lukaku.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
morty
Moderator
Staff member
We have, apparently, tabled a 3.1 million bid for FC Berlin CB Toni Leistner.
6 foot 3 who can also play RB and DM.
6 foot 3 who can also play RB and DM.
OldRobert
Well-Known Member
Hughton 2012-2014
Ins: (2012/2013) Whittaker, Butterfield, Snodgrass, Turner, Bassong, Tettey, Bunn, Camp, Becchio.
(2013/2014) Garrido, RvW, Redmond, Fer, Hooper, Olsen, Nash.
Adams 2014-2015
Ins: (2014-2015) Grabban, Lafferty, O'Neill, Jerome, McGrandles, Miguel, Thompson, Cuellar.
Neil 2015-2017
Ins: (2014-2015) Andreu
(2015-2016) Mulumbu, Dorrans, Brady, Kean, Jarvis, Pinto, Godfrey, Klose, Naismith, Maddison.
(2016-2017) Canos, McGovern, Jones, Pritchard, Oliveira.
There's a list for anyone who's interested. Bit of a motley crew there, some worth the money and the contract, some, the reason we're in the poo imho.
Incidentally Morty never a trueer phrase: "Also I think the Premiership is an absolute poison chalice for clubs our size", I've often wondered if promotion to the PL is actually worth it.
Ins: (2012/2013) Whittaker, Butterfield, Snodgrass, Turner, Bassong, Tettey, Bunn, Camp, Becchio.
(2013/2014) Garrido, RvW, Redmond, Fer, Hooper, Olsen, Nash.
Adams 2014-2015
Ins: (2014-2015) Grabban, Lafferty, O'Neill, Jerome, McGrandles, Miguel, Thompson, Cuellar.
Neil 2015-2017
Ins: (2014-2015) Andreu
(2015-2016) Mulumbu, Dorrans, Brady, Kean, Jarvis, Pinto, Godfrey, Klose, Naismith, Maddison.
(2016-2017) Canos, McGovern, Jones, Pritchard, Oliveira.
There's a list for anyone who's interested. Bit of a motley crew there, some worth the money and the contract, some, the reason we're in the poo imho.
Incidentally Morty never a trueer phrase: "Also I think the Premiership is an absolute poison chalice for clubs our size", I've often wondered if promotion to the PL is actually worth it.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
I started going through them, one by one, and realised I couldn't be bothered!
Of Hughton's I'd say 10 out of 16 worked out, one way or another
Adams - 4 out of 8, including Thompson in that as he has just been unlucky.
Neil - 10 out of 16, including Canos, as it just didn't work out, and we pretty much got our money back.
Overall thats actually not too bad, all things considered.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Middlesborough left back James Husband maybe on the way. Age 23.
Been loaned out for a few seasons, first to Fulham, then Huddersfield (ahhhhh *nods head*)
Been loaned out for a few seasons, first to Fulham, then Huddersfield (ahhhhh *nods head*)
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OldRobert
Well-Known Member
Deal is £1m apparently, and should be complete within 24/48 hours.
Here's one to think about, or not. As we are very short of CBs, should we be considering offering Bassong a pay by appearance contract? As is common knowledge he is training alone in a local park.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Just been announced, husband has signed!
Fee around 1 million, 3 year deal.
Fee around 1 million, 3 year deal.
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morty
Moderator
Staff member
A bit more about the Howson transfer (sorry for the clickbaity site)
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/what-jonny-howson-offer-middlesbrough-13312587
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/what-jonny-howson-offer-middlesbrough-13312587
OldRobert
Well-Known Member
From SSN 11:51
MAGPIES' MURPHY BID REJECTED
Sky Sports News HQ understands Newcastle have had a bid of £8m turned down by Norwich City for forward Jacob Murphy.
However, SSNHQ expects the Premier League new boys to go back in with a revised bid.
MAGPIES' MURPHY BID REJECTED
Sky Sports News HQ understands Newcastle have had a bid of £8m turned down by Norwich City for forward Jacob Murphy.
However, SSNHQ expects the Premier League new boys to go back in with a revised bid.
morty
Moderator
Staff member
Unless its a lot closer to 15, they can get stuffed.
He's on a long contract and he'll only be worth more at the end of next season.
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OldRobert
Well-Known Member
Let's hope Webber thinks the same.
Sit with the City fans who turn up
Free to join, free to read. Introduce yourself, pick a player thread, and get stuck into the next match thread.