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Norwich City vs Wigan (Away) Sunday 14th April

morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
25 points with Emi I agree, but why leave some of our best players on the bench when we are forced to leave him out. If DF thinks Mo is the best midfielder in the division, what the hell is he doing on the bench? Cantwell seems a shoe-in for Emi, yet has little creativity which surely a manager would be trying to replace. There seems to be almost a fixed order of players coming in if someone is banned or injured in midfield which mustn't be altered. God knows where Vrancic and/or Leitner stand in that.
Not all midfielders can play in all positions, or indeed in all combinations of other players. I would see Mo and Kenny as players that like to occupy the same position. Vrancic can play higher, in the Stieperman role, I think Todd was a number 10 originally, but it is odd, as Stieperman is almost a false 9 rather than a 10. And basically we don't have cover for Emi, I certainly wouldn't see Mo as a direct swap. And all this really ties in with the philosophy that we are trying to instil, about having players to suit the system, Farke is doing his best to maintain the system, with the minimum of disruption. And to bring Leitner in you would have to drop Kenny (Who actually likes to play higher up the pitch and has played as a 10 before) but also bring Todd in, changing two players and causing greater upset to the overall dynamic.

No idea where Tettey and Thompson fit in any more!
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
I don't need to be sold on how good Mo is.

But at the point Mario got injured he was the best player in the division.
In fairness similar probably applied to Leitner's before he got injured, he was running things, just an amazing group of midfielders we have at our disposal.

Those two only playing about half the season each is the only reason we don't have a midfielder in the Championship team of the season. If either had started 40 games this season they'd probably be winning our POTS award and in that team of the year.
 
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Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
I would assume Farke has a mental list of who is going to be in the team next season, and who needs to be upgraded.
We can be pretty confident that they've got their transfer targets sorted already.

And we may have to be a bit ruthless to fit them in unfortunately? With the homegrown player quota to consider?

E.g. suspect they know they need a younger version of Alex Tettey.... if they get one.... where is the room for Tettey in the squad? In fairness they did only want to give him the one year contract, but can see us subsidising a loan spell for him in France or something.

Trybull would be the number 2 for that defensive position, and they've got Godfrey for emergencies, so I'm expecting Tettey to be deemed surplus. Especially as he wouldn't form part of our just in case of relegation planning because he'd be released at that point in 2020 anyway.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if we're hoping to land one out of Che Adams or Jarrod Bowen at an acceptable price and this Greek bloke is the affordable Plan B because of the homegrown thing, got Jordan Rhodes to leave as well.

Not going to be any room for Srbeny in a 25 man squad despite him playing 15 games this season, although a loan to a mid-table Championship side could be the making of him?

Have to really question whether there is going to be room to register Timm Klose and whether we may sign a homegrown centre back as an alternative, e.g. Adam Webster (or funnier.... that Cooper bloke from Leeds if they fail to get promoted).... because we're surely not going to be naming Carlton Morris or Louis Thompson in the 25 either, they can both go out on loan (not under 21 so not exempt from registration).

I'd have more appetite for seeing Klose than Hanley on the pitch in the Premier League, but Hanley probably safe because he's homegrown?

Suspect all of our current centre mids (Vrancic, Trybull, McLean, Leitner) are safe for a year apart from Tettey though.

Todd Cantwell just about qualifies as being U21 because he was 20 in January (21 now),so can be used without being registered.

Right back, defensive midfielder, attacking midfielder / winger, striker and goalkeeper required at very minimum. And 2 or 3 of those need to be homegrown.
 
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N

Number 9

Well-Known Member
What I haven't seen mentioned anywhere is the psychological aspect of management.
If Michael Bailey, Davitt, Freezer etc talking about the time to change things up and bring in players off the bench / make subs earlier, does Farke decide to do the opposite just because he's the man?
Bielsa has played the same starting 11 for 8 games too I believe, so is Farke looking at the 'genius wonder coach' and playing psychological games there?

I've met Farke a couple of times and seems like a gentleman but obviously didn't have deep conversations about teams etc so I don't know what he thinks other than listening to the pressers and his selections on game day.
 
morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
Is the homegrown quota even a thing in the Premiership? To illustrate my point, see Man City's lineup against Cardiff.

538
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
Is the homegrown quota even a thing in the Premiership? To illustrate my point, see Man City's lineup against Cardiff.

View attachment 538
You can register 25 players in your squad who are over the age of 21.

Of those 25 though.... 8 need to be homegrown.

They have a registered squad quota, rather than a matchday squad minimum.

Plus you can have a 23 man squad with 6 homegrown players I believe, just that if you want your full 25 then 8 of those need to be homegrown.

"An Under 21 player is defined as one who is under the age of 21 on 1st January in the year in which the season commences"

Unfortunately this means that we don't get away with keeping Lewis, Godfrey and Cantwell out of the squad as they were all 21 on 1st January 2019.

Although we don't have to register Max Aarons.

Essentially we've got a squad of 27 right now, and only 3 of those are U21 for registration purposes for next season and one of those is Passlack so leaving anyway.

Hence in order to sign people we're going to need to leave people out of the squad or ship them out, and whatever 25 we end up with has to have 8 homegrown players in it.

Although Tim Krul does count as homegrown despite being Dutch.

Pinto and Rhodes will be off obviously, Rhodes being one of our homegrown players.... so that gives us 22 players at the moment.

Essentially if we want to sign 5 players then we're going to have to lose 2, and depending on who we choose to lose.... we may have to sign a domestic player or two and for them to be any good that means spending some serious dosh.
 
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morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
You can register 25 players in your squad who are over the age of 21.

We are fortunate in that Cantwell and Aarons don't need to take a spot. Not sure about Godfrey and Lewis, can't remember when the cutoff is.

Of those 25 though.... 8 need to be homegrown.

They have a registered squad quota, rather than a matchday squad minimum.

Although we can register Aarons etc if we want.

Plus you can have a 23 man squad with 6 homegrown players I believe, just that if you want your full 25 then 8 of those need to be homegrown.
Ah right, I wasn't sure about specifics, I just knew that it wasn't quite so stringent as Championship rules. And I remember when the 25 man squad thing came in, Arsenal managed to register over 50 players!
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
Ah right, I wasn't sure about specifics, I just knew that it wasn't quite so stringent as Championship rules. And I remember when the 25 man squad thing came in, Arsenal managed to register over 50 players!
You don't have to register players under 21 on 1st January.

So Max Aarons doesn't need to count as part of the 25.
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
Tim Krul (HG)
Ben Godfrey (HG)
Ivo Pinto
Christoph Zimmermann
Mario Vrancic
Moritz Leitner
Jamal Lewis (HG)
Timm Klose
Emi Buendia
Marco Stiepermann
Tom Trybull
Teemu Pukki
Kenny McLean
Onel Hernandez
Alex Tettey
Philip Heise
Carlton Morris (HG)
Grant Hanley (HG)
Dennis Srbeny
Michael McGovern
Louis Thompson (HG)
Todd Cantwell (HG)
Sean Raggett (HG)
Jordan Rhodes (HG)

Exempt:

Max Aarons
Aston Oxborough
Felix Passlack

So are current squad ignoring those out on loan and the 3 who are exempt is a squad of 24 players, of which 9 are homegrown.

Now obviously we're going to want to sign 3 or 4 players at least, which means we need to shed players from that 24.

The problem is that the players in contention for the cull would presumably include Raggett, Rhodes, Thompson, and probably Morris? All of whom will offer little in the league above? But are all included in our 9 homegrown players over 21.

Pinto the only other definite departure.

So basically when we cull the squad a bit to freshen it up.... it looks like some of our incoming players are going to need to be homegrown. We can register Max Aarons in the 25 though if we want, he counts as one.
 
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Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
ps. I think its a little bit silly that the cut off is 21 years old..... when the reserve leagues are all U23 now :rolleyes:
 
Din

Din

Well-Known Member
"An Under 21 player is defined as one who is under the age of 21 on 1st January in the year in which the season commences"

Unfortunately this means that we don't get away with keeping Lewis, Godfrey and Cantwell out of the squad as they were all 21 on 1st January 2019.

Although we don't have to register Max Aarons.
Great post CB but Godfrey, Cantwell and Lewis were all 20 on 1st January 2019, and have all turned 21 since. So does that mean presumably we wouldn't have to register them?
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
Great post CB but Godfrey, Cantwell and Lewis were all 20 on 1st January 2019, and have all turned 21 since. So does that mean presumably we wouldn't have to register them?
Oh yeah, that's cool.

But we will probably need to include them in the 25 anyway to count towards the quota?

So it doesn't really gain us anything?
 
OldRobert

OldRobert

Well-Known Member
Half time. Proved right. Cantwell and McLean losing the ball more times than I lose my socks. DF's stubborness is in danger of undoing a lot of good work. Still the better players are on the bench.:mad:
 
Canaryboy

Canaryboy

Well-Known Member
Farke has to change it now I'm afraid, I'd suggest both Vrancic and Leitner to come in the side.

Lets not make Cantwell and McLean scapegoats though..... At one point McLean was the only one in the middle trying to create space, and both Stiepermann and Hernandez were also constantly giving away the ball, Stiepermann looks exhausted.

I think there's probably an argument for two, possibly three changes.

I know Stiepermann he links up very well with Pukki..... but so does Vrancic when he's in that number 10 role.

Personally I want to see Vrancic and Leitner in the side for the rest of the season. Doesn't necessarily have to be Cantwell and McLean dropped. although Cantwell should probably be one of the two.... he's going to need a season out on loan somewhere next season anyway.

I'd suggest the SPL personally.... needs to toughen up a bit. Hibs/Hearts?

Watched Palace vs Man City earlier.... Palace team jam packed full of complete units and athletes, makes you realise that we're going to need to perform some real surgery on this squad if we go up.

Starting Rhodes and playing Pukki in one of the three attacking midfield positions is another option we have. If we think Srberny can come on for the last 10/15 when Rhodes is blowing.
 
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